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12V / 100A supercapacitor battery

April 10, 2019 Electronics / DIY electronics 124 946 38

A supercapacitor (aka an ionistor) is almost the same capacitor, only of high capacity, comparable to a battery. I made a 12 V battery from such ionistors, which can be used in various devices. And it will last longer in certain modes compared to batteries of any type, and that's why the supercapacitor wins here:

- not afraid of a full discharge "to zero";
- 100, and maybe 1000 times more withstand cycles "charge / discharge";
- not afraid of critical current overloads.

And that's not all. I will continue after assembling the battery.

Will need

.
Copper wire from 2 square meters. mm
Two nuts with bolts.

Tool: soldering iron, tweezers, wire cutters.
Consumables: solder, flux.

Making batteries from ionistors

We will make a battery of 8 ionistors connected in counter-parallel. Namely, there will be 4 pairs of two parallel-connected capacitors connected in series.

The lacquered copper wire must be straightened and cleaned of varnish. You can do this with a clerical knife.

Bend the wire into the connecting elements.

You need to make three squares and two poles.

To the poles, as on a real battery, solder the nuts for connection.

We make corners of the squares.

We assemble the battery, solder the connectors to the ionistors, without confusing polarity.

First we collect 4 groups.

And then solder the poles.

We charge with a current of 5 Amps.

After five minutes, the battery is fully charged.

Check the lamp.

We close the wire - it glowed to red.

We connect the electric motor.

Where to apply

And you can use such a battery where there are high and short-term current loads. Ideal example: storage capacitor for a subwoofer in a car.
Also, a battery is useful where there are frequent charge and discharge cycles: in the form of a battery for storing energy from solar panels, and its full return to the lights at night.
These are just two use cases, but there are many more.
They even stand on Ali Express () is relatively not expensive, given the enormous duration of their service when used as intended.

Watch the video

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Comments (38)

#1 Uncle Vitya Guests April 10, 2019 18:20
5

It would be necessary five pieces in series, if 12 volts.
- To answer
1. #2 Guest Yuri Guests April 17, 2019 01:13
  2
  
  For 12 Volts, you need 6 pieces in a series circuit. In addition, it is highly desirable to connect a balancer to the circuit, which is also not cheap.
  
  To answer
#3 Guest Alexander Guests April 10, 2019 18:29
10

The ionistor, unlike the capacitor, has a low discharge rate. That is, he cannot give out all his energy at once. In terms of energy transfer rate, this is something in between a chemical current source (battery) and a capacitor. Therefore, installing an ionistor in parallel with the power of the subwoofer, as is done by some not too experienced car audio installers, is practically meaningless. From sharp powerful loads, it will not help. As an additional battery, when the power wires of the amplifier are too long and thin, it will partially help.

It is impossible to use such a battery parallel to the amplifier, and indeed any other load in the car. Specialized ionistors, which are usually used for this, have their own charge circuit. Without it, when charging, the ionistor will create a huge load on the network, which is close to a short circuit, which can lead, at best, to a fuse blowing out, and in the worst case, to a fire if the fuse is selected incorrectly or not at all.

And to improve the performance of the amplifier, it is better to add conventional capacitors to the power supply of the amplifier. But within reasonable limits, and not for all amplifiers, this is suitable - the amplifier also has a charge circuit for these capacitors, and with a strong increase in capacitance it will either not withstand or will work incorrectly.
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1. #4 Denis Guests April 12, 2019 08:53
  0
  
  Maybe you can show a graph of the “delay” of the discharge speed? New in physics, the capacitor discharges according to a complex formula that even a “guru” threatens with a finger. Did one hemisphere magnetize you with a magnet from the speaker?
  
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  1. #5 Guest Ivan Guests April 12, 2019 2:08 PM
    3
    
    Denis, you dunce (the same as the article’s aftar). Physics is an ordinary capacitor, and an ionistor is chemistry.
    
    To answer
    1. #6 Guest Valery Guests April 17, 2019 18:30
      2
      
      All is correct. I have a 1 F. ionistor. It has a discharge current of not more than 100 μA.
      
      To answer
      1. #7 dim Guests July 22, 2019 06:49 AM
        0
        
        Yes, yes ... just from the exhibition, the battery of 400F 12V ionistors has a discharge current of more than 100 A. It can be used as a starting on a car .....
        
        To answer
#8 Student Guests April 10, 2019 18:39
2

Do not forget that the voltage can not be divided evenly, which will cause overvoltage on one of the ionistors. For capacitors, they usually set the equalizing leakage currents resistors in parallel with the capacitance.
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1. #9 Hermann Guests April 15, 2019 2:06 p.m.
  0
  
  This is correct, but these resistors will greatly increase the self-discharge of the system.
  
  To answer
#10 Guest Serge Guests April 10, 2019 19:51
1

12v divide by 4 we get 3 in. and with the generator running, 14.4 / 4 = 3.6 in. the maximum voltage on the ionistor is 2.7v. definitely fall asleep! need a battery of 5 * 2 cells.
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1. #11 whitlak Guests April 13, 2019 05:18
  2
  
  By the way, the capacity of the resulting battery is only 0.25 F
  
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#12 Guest Vitaliy Guests April 10, 2019 8:14 p.m.
2

4x2.7 = 10.8 volts
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#13 Guest Sergey Guests April 10, 2019 20:54
3

The total capacity of 250F, voltage 10.8V. I don’t see the point.
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#14 Alexey Guests April 10, 2019 9:43 p.m.
0

A risky way to charge. If the capacitors are different, then on one pair the voltage can be higher. And it is impossible to exceed 2.7 in.
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#15 Guest Michael Guests April 10, 2019 10:27 p.m.
2

For normal operation of the ionistor, its maximum voltage cannot be exceeded; for this, special circuits are put in place to equalize the voltage. The 4th 2.7V ionistor to replace the battery is not enough - they’re torn, burn the car! Ionistors work normally up to 80 degrees, in the summer there are even more than 100 under the hood. To work with the subbuffer they have too much internal resistance, it is better to install special capacitors. The only plus is a winter start when the battery has a lot of internal resistance.
- To answer
#16 Alexey Poe Guests April 11, 2019 04:51
4

How to use in solar panels if the capacitor holds energy for a short time?
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#17 Konstantin Guests April 11, 2019 11:00
0

And will electric scooters work as current and voltage sources for riding?
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#18 Kirill Guests April 11, 2019 11:09 a.m.
5

IMHO, if everything was so simple and cool, then Tesla cars would have been ionistors and not batteries ... Oh, there they’re better versed in electrics than the author of the experiment ...
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#19 Alex Guests April 11, 2019 12:05
2

Without interchanges, such a scheme will not work for a long time. Diodes are needed, etc.
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#20 Oktoproper Guests April 11, 2019 12:44
9

That is, 100 amperes on a wire Ø2 mm ^ 2, did not bother anyone?!?!?
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1. #21 Evgeniy Guests April 12, 2019 05:45
  0
  
  wire Ø2 mm ^ 2 at a voltage of 220V; rated current 20A. at 12 volts it can withstand up to 150 amperes
  
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  1. #22 Ivan Guests April 12, 2019 1:19 p.m.
    14
    
    It is felt that physics was taught ... But in general, the voltage has nothing to do with the cross section of the wire.
    
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    1. #23 Guest Alexander Guests April 16, 2019 4:36 p.m.
      2
      
      where is the tension? talk about talk was
      
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  2. #24 Marconi Guests April 16, 2019 07:30 a.m.
    1
    
    Bravo!!!!
    
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  3. #25 Vasily Guests April 18, 2019 05:58
    0
    
    There are no wires with a cross section of 2 mm! Only 1.5 or 2.5
    
    To answer
    1. #26 Guest Vitaliy Guests April 21, 2019 2:17 PM
      0
      
      Buy wires with a diameter of 2.5 mm from different manufacturers at the market or in the construction shop and measure the diameters of the wires. And you will definitely make sure that 2 mm are available.
      
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    2. #27 Guest Yuri Guests May 28, 2019 16:55
      0
      
      There are. Winding for example.
      
      To answer
  4. #28 dim Guests July 22, 2019 06:54 AM
    0
    
    This is something new in physics ... According to the normal experience of engineering calculations, the current density in a separate wire for copper is 10A / sq.mm. If in tight packing (trance coil) - 5A / sq mm. for long-term operation, respectively, at Ф2.0mm S = 3.14 sq mm, which corresponds to 31A
    
    To answer
#29 Boris Guests April 11, 2019 2:39 p.m.
2

Is it possible to use this device as a launcher for a car without harm? Or do you need protective circuits?
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#30 Guest Sergey Guests April 11, 2019 4:48 p.m.
0

Can I use it for resistance welding?
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#31 Guest Valery Guests April 12, 2019 06:18
0

That's what I thought, if you put such a unit for the electric motor on a bicycle, how long it will go and whether it will go at all and how safe it is to put it on a frame near your feet so you can stay without dignity if it slams, well, it's pretty scary.
- To answer
1. #32 Guest Valery Guests April 17, 2019 18:25
  1
  
  Not at all. A current of 5 A in 5 minutes (as advised by the author of the article) will charge up to 0.4 A / h. This is enough only to recharge the phone.
  
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#33 Starkoff Valery Visitors April 12, 2019 4:38 p.m.
0

we all probably remember the adventure of Mr. Prokhorov. In that circuit, a capacitor of this kind was just needed, which does not have to be able to hold a charge for a long time, but use the accumulated one to start or when overtaking, thereby saving the power of a weakly strong motor generator. The idea is not so new and was still discussed in Soviet magazines, but somehow it did not take root and did not work ... Somewhere here the devil rummaged
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#34 Guest Nikolay Guests April 12, 2019 4:43 PM
0

it’s very stupid to think that THIS will replace your battery even for poor lighting ... teach physics, author.
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1. #35 Guest Yuri Guests 17 april 2019 01:41
  0
  
  "At present, buses powered by ionistors are manufactured by Hyundai Motor, Trolza, and Belkommunmash." (Wikipedia)
  Regarding lighting, you can not worry.
  
  To answer
#36 Sergey Zuev Guests April 13, 2019 3:11 p.m.
0

There, Ali is full of boards equalizing the charge and surge protection. Just soldering sequentially is not correct, they will quickly fail.
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#37 Mosh Jonah Guests April 14, 2019 09:53
1

firstly, about the cross section ... 2 + 2 is equal to ...? 500 farads are preserved ... the voltage depends on the charging voltage, in this case it accelerates the death of the ionistors ...
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#38 Eduard Nikolaevich Guests July 13, 2019 5:43 p.m.
0

These capacitors have an internal resistance = 120 mOhm, and the entire battery - (120/2) * 4 = 240 mOhm (0.24 Ohm). The author of the article is very cunning about 100 amperes, short-circuit current 12V / 0.24ohm = 50 amperes !!
According to the manufacturer for these ionistors:
- Maximum continuous operating current (A): 3.2
- Maximum peak current (A): 18.4
- Short circuit current (A): 67.5
- Maximum leakage current (72 hours / mA): 0.07
- Rated voltage (V): 2.7
- Maximum operating voltage (V): 2.85
It turns out that this is a (incomplete) 10.8V / 6.4A battery - somehow "... for a subwoofer in a car .." IT IS generally unsuitable, unless the car is "disintegrated" to the "worst friend" ...
- To answer