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“Zero” and “earth”: what is the fundamental difference?

January 6, 2019 Electronics 613 254 144

Historically, it happened that in the Russian Federation, as well as in the neighboring countries, the grounding principle is used when the neutral conductor is connected to the grounding circuit. Many people may have a “legitimate” question: if they are in contact with each other, then why pull so many wires - it is enough to conduct a double core everywhere (phase and zero line) and it will be possible to ground through a zero core! However, in such a formulation of the question one technical nuance is hidden, which turns this solution not only into a useless toy, but in some cases into a rather dangerous undertaking.

Zero and earth, what is the fundamental difference

For those who can’t wait, and who like to “look back,” a priori I will say “secret” - the fundamental idea is where the ground wire connects to ground. The option of connecting them directly inside the outlet, connecting the grounding conductor (yellow-green wire) to the zero (blue wire), will not be true. Such a grounding circuit will conflict with the requirements of the PUE. As a result, there will be no protection for people from electric shock; moreover, even more security problems will be added.
In the PUE, without any options, it is unambiguously prescribed what the grounding conductor should be. It should be a continuous wire, without any disconnecting elements - relays, fuses, switches, and also, let’s say, by disconnecting the electric plug from the outlet.
It is worth violating this basic requirement stipulated in the EMP - and grounding from reliable protection of a person from electric shock turns into a useless fiction. But the problems on this, as the theory teaches, and practice shows, do not end there! If you still try to give grounding functions to the zero wire, then the possibility is not excluded that the case of the refrigerator, microwave or other household appliances will be energized. This is due to the fact that an electric current flows with a corresponding voltage drop through a zero wire, the value of which can be determined by multiplying the current strength by the resistance index of the conductor in the gap between the measured location and the genuine grounding point. Moreover, the magnitude of such a voltage can be characterized by tens of volts, that is, it can be dangerous to humans (in the limit - deadly!).

It remains to draw some conclusions and put emphasis. What is the fundamental difference between “zero” and “earth”? The fact that current flows through the neutral wire and switches are connected to it, are the same input machines. That is, if we want to have "land" in the form of a continuous vein, we must:

in multi-storey apartment buildings: connect to a special earth conductor in an electric tunnel;
for an individual residential cottage: the connection point should be an input automatic machine, more precisely, its zero wire at the entrance, which stretches through the air or underground cable from the nearest step-down transformer from the house, and the cross-section of the zero wire should be at least ten square millimeters for copper wire and 16 mm2 - for aluminum core (see the relevant paragraph in the PUE).

Any other place behind the introductory machine cannot be used as "ground", therefore nothing can be considered as such from metal ingots dug near the house to the body of the electrical panel itself.
Never forget the rules set out in the PES.According to them, one should be guided by an elementary, but true rule: when there is no certainty that this particular wire is “ground”, you should not connect anything except an 30 mA residual current device, which It works instantly, unlike a circuit breaker. God knows how to keep safe!

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Comments (144)

#1 Nikolay. Guests January 6, 2019 3:57 p.m.
12

It's time to forget what grounding and grounding are. Current houses are powered by a single wire. In other words, only the phase enters the house from the shield. And the zero wires go out of the apartment into the shield and are hung on the zero rod, which "sits" on the zero wire of the main cable, and that, in turn, is hung on the ground bolt. All. Thinking more is not required. This is done so as not to steal electrical energy by holding the ground bus separately from the main circuit.
But even this chip can be bypassed and having set up “your own ground bus” to hang all the nudges from your consumers on it. But how to do this is practically impossible. It will be necessary to zero all wires, lay new ones, “your own.” However, the controllers still they will figure you out.
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1. #2 evgen Guests January 6, 2019 7:51 p.m.
  43
  
  “It's time to forget what grounding and grounding are,” did you even say that?
  
  there is grounding and there is grounding, and finally in this article is written more bullshit that explains something.
  I will say briefly that zero is always earthed, in old houses it is earthed at substations and there is no land in such houses, because the “scoop” always saved on everything, it was a pity to extend the ground wire in the entrance to all apartments, and now the simplest scheme is ground is already earthed in the switchgear at the entrance and a separate ground is already being pulled from it. And everyone should have switched over to this system for a long time !!! just as usual, shitty savings do not allow all people to use imported household appliances normally, because she always !! need land !! , and we are half in the scoop, and use the benefits of Western civilization.
  
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  1. #3 gogol Guests January 7, 2019 2:50 p.m.
    20
    
    Dear, We used the benefits of civilization. right up to the middle of the 19th century. and now we are reaping the fruits of immorality and the complete degradation of humanity
    
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  2. #4 boris Guests January 9, 2019 10:55
    12
    
    When did our RCD appear? Since then, there was a need for a third wire. This is the 90s. The absence of the 3rd wire is not a “shovel” saving; this is a theoretically unacceptable expenditure of non-ferrous metal. For what purposes did you need a 3rd wire? Do you think everywhere in the world is grounded neutral? And if linear 220, yes in a triangle? In the United States, in general, in the household sector, there has been food from the “pig” channel for a long time. You try to work with household appliances used in Japan or in the USA, especially if you are powered from the midpoint of the same “pig”.
    
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  3. #5 Rrr Guests January 9, 2019 1:59 p.m.
    12
    
    You write nonsense, not understanding the essence of the issue. Do not mislead people
    
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  4. #6 Crocodile Guests 13 january 2019 03:32
    28
    
    Scoop is a good tool for cleaning garbage. Unfortunately, I can’t imagine what kind of scoop is needed to remove garbage from your head.
    
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2. #7 manolis Guests January 6, 2019 8:49 p.m.
  1
  
  Take plus from the shield and do not drive into the house and a minus with
  
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  1. #8 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019 01:28 a.m.
    18
    
    Another "craftsman" whose house is powered by constant voltage. Plus and minus in DC circuits. The house has alternating current. Zero and Phase.
    
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    1. #9 Slops Guests January 14, 2019 18:53
      4
      
      The house has alternating current, 3 phases with a displacement at an angle of 120 degrees (total 380 volts) and in the center is zero, which is essentially a cross-over bus. The difference between this bus and any of the phases gives 220 (230) volts.
      
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  2. #10 Vladimir Guests January 15, 2019 11:09 a.m.
    1
    
    well you .... oh what a dense!
    
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  3. #11 vano55 Visitors March 1, 2019 20:35
    1
    
    Where did you find (+) in AC?
    
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3. #12 Mitya Guests January 10, 2019 3:39 p.m.
  13
  
  The PUE does not care about finances - this is not his goal, but his - insecurity. Just one example: If 0 breaks off, then with a shorted ground, the case (let's say the refrigerator) is under voltage no more, no less than 220V !!!
  
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  1. #13 Andronus Guests 13 january 2019 20:10
    0
    
    Voltage is called the potential difference at the ends of the conductor, and due to the resistance of the consumer (refrigerator), the difference decreases and the output will be 100 no more than 100.
    
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    1. #14 Guest Alexander Guests 23 january 2019 00:27
      5
      
      Enough to drop the skates and 100 V
      
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  2. #15 one Guests January 21, 2019 3:00 p.m.
    4
    
    To make the refrigerator case energized, first you need to conduct this voltage to the case or break through the insulation and connect the compressor motor so cunningly that the breakdown goes to the case ..
    
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  3. #16 Mark Guests March 7, 2019 11:12 p.m.
    0
    
    It is precisely in the PUE that it is prescribed that the refrigerator case (electrical device with double insulation) does not require zeroing.
    
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4. #17 Guest Michael Guests 12 january 2019 17:50
  2
  
  to steal as you suggest, you need to open the seal on the counter and swap the 0 and phase and this is easily determined because the counter will stand, if you decide to shift the phase and rotate the counter in the opposite direction, this is only effective on pure mechanics. electronic systems, which are either optocoupler or hall sensors along the drum, the direction of rotation in general
  
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5. #18 Ruslan Guests January 26, 2019 11:39 a.m.
  2
  
  Nikolay, you are clearly not a specialist in the electric power industry, therefore, please, do not make a gag and do not mislead ordinary people!
  
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6. #19 Guest Alex Guests March 2, 2019 11:31 p.m.
  0
  
  If you do not understand anything in electrical engineering, then do not write anything, because by your nonsense you expose people to mortal danger. It was necessary to write such a thing - "only the phase enters the house from the shield"!
  Then just complete nonsense. In an apartment building in a riser, three phase conductors are laid, one zero, one grounding. In the switchgear (input distribution switchgear), the zero and ground wires are connected to different buses, between which a jumper is installed (!), Because the zero at the input must be re-grounded, which is done by connecting the local ground circuit of this building to the ground bus. For private houses, the principle is the same: zero at the input must be re-grounded, i.e. connected to the local (for this house) ground loop, starting from this point, the zero working and protective conductors must be strictly separated in all parts of the circuit.
  
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#20 Egor Guests January 6, 2019 18:28
74

The author is trying to reveal a topic about which he has no idea. It refers to the PUE, but he, it seems, did not look into them. He has no idea how grounding and grounding differ. Where is grounding used, and where is grounding? In general, the author’s mess in the head took a topic in which he was not competent.
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1. #21 YURICH Guests January 8, 2019 9:49 p.m.
  10
  
  5+. I completely agree.
  
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2. #22 Semen Guests January 9, 2019 10:05 a.m.
  8
  
  I completely agree. The author of the article did not understand the topic. In general, such things, especially regarding electricians, should be written by people with a technical background.
  
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  1. #23 Guest Alexander Guests January 9, 2019 19:44
    7
    
    Even the presence of higher education in a specialty also does not always give the right to express one’s opinion. We had a head of the electric shop at our enterprise, who was very proud that he took part in the construction (not in construction, but it seems in commissioning) of some kind of nuclear power plant in Iran. So, he didn’t hear that there is the concept of “touch voltage”, but this concept is present either in the PTB or in the Electrical Installation Rules somewhere near the concept of “step voltage”. And it worked fine.And my wife, a graduate of MVTU im. Bauman, a qualification electrical engineer when writing a diploma calculated something like the resistance of the grounding device. But it was unlikely she could explain this in a couple of years, but she had grown to the position of lead engineer at the research institute. So it’s not necessary to know many things at all. You just need to do according to the project, and designers should know the rules and must follow them.
    
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    1. #24 Ruslan Guests January 26, 2019 11:47
      2
      
      A high position is not always an indicator of knowledge and intelligence - thanks for confirming this with the example of your boss and your own wife!
      
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#25 Pavel Petrovich Guests January 6, 2019 18:32
36

Guys. And the one who wrote this article and many commentators have no idea what they are writing about. You must first qualify at least for the III-group for electrical safety, then write something. There are no other concepts in electrical engineering and electrical safety other than those written in the rules !!!
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#26 sled Guests January 6, 2019 18:44
2

it’s all just fun, of course security is a big deal, but we don’t have to think that our grandfathers were dumber than us even now in most private houses there is no real zero; it is connected to zero on the first support and it enters the house through two wires; how it should be like everything in our country
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#27 Gregory Guests January 6, 2019 18:45
1

I don’t understand one thing, the current is alternating, that is, zero and phase must alternately change places. That is, if the current does flow in one direction, then the other. And zero is not zero at all 1/25 sec. What do I understand wrong?
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1. #28 Guest Alex Guests January 6, 2019 9:20 p.m.
  8
  
  You don’t understand that. Nobody changes places there. Zero - it is zero, and the voltage level on the second wire (phase) changes relative to zero. That is more than him, then less. Well it is - in a simple way.
  
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  1. #29 Den kol Visitors January 8, 2019 12:39 a.m.
    0
    
    Nothing is clear.
    
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    1. #30 Guest Vladimir Guests January 15, 2019 11:16
      3
      
      Well, for example, we think the glass bottom is zero, the top cut max voltage I still can’t laugh ... to ponder over your stupid questions
      
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  2. #31 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019 01:35
    1
    
    What voltage level is changing? Take a voltmeter and measure. Between zero and phase 220 volts, between any two phases 380 volts. Don't rubbish nonsense.
    
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    1. #32 Guest Vladimir Guests January 9, 2019 2:02 p.m.
      1
      
      YYY. The amplitude value is how it changes. And it nifiga is not 220 and not 380 V. But the current one, yes, just like I said, almost it is.
      
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    2. #33 Guest Alexander Guests January 13, 2019 20:08
      1
      
      And if instead of a voltmeter take an oscilloscope?
      
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    3. #34 Andronus Guests 13 january 2019 20:15
      0
      
      Yes, not the voltage changes but the potential
      
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2. #35 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019
  5
  
  In alternating current))) it is not the phase and zero that change places, but the phase goes along a sinusoid with an oscillation frequency of 50 times per second. What is the current frequency heard? It is designated in Hertz. In the network we have a frequency of 50 Hz and a voltage of 220 volts, in the USA and Europe, a frequency of 60 Hz and a voltage of 127 volts.
  
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  1. #36 Nikolay Polozok Guests January 9, 2019 09:19
    2
    
    In the USA, 110V 60 Hz in sockets, and in Europe 230V 60Hz.
    
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  2. #37 Andrei Guests January 9, 2019 10:32 p.m.
    1
    
    ABOUT! This is a sensible comment, not blah blah, somewhere near the true one)
    
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3. #38 Guest Sergey Guests 14 january 2019 00:10
  1
  
  If there are only two wires, then you understand correctly, back and forth every second 50 times, and there is no direction, the wires are equal. But in real life there is a third conductor - earth, (well, or the static capacity of the body), and here it is always zero relative to it, and the phase voltage is alternating.
  
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#39 Guest Sergey Guests January 6, 2019 18:49
1

In pulse power supplies, in particular a computer, when using Euro outlets, voltage is divided by capacitors, the middle point of which is connected to the ground, and 220 are supplied to the capacitors themselves through the bridge. Will this be correct if voltages are distributed between zero and one half of the divider Earth, which in principle is 0 and only with a phase imbalance reaches several volts. and on the other shoulder is everything else from 314V?
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1. #40 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019 01:38
  9
  
  The capacitor NEVER shared any voltage. Where do you get all this from? Capacitors are designed to smooth the ripple in the power source.
  
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  1. #41 Rrr Guests January 9, 2019 2:01 p.m.
    4
    
    And you certainly haven’t heard about the capacitive voltage divider
    
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  2. #42 Andrei Guests January 9, 2019 10:35 p.m.
    0
    
    The exact and correct answer) In my opinion, that comrade was "a little confused" in the power supplies.
    
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#43 Ivan Gennadievich Gordienko Guests January 6, 2019 7:04 p.m.
11

Hmm, electricians gathered! Study the PUE and carefully study why you need protective grounding! TN-S Method Time to Bury
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1. #44 Guest Vlad Guests 9 january 2019 01:39
  3
  
  So long ago, TN-S-C has been applied
  
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2. #45 Guest Victor Guests January 9, 2019 6:33 a.m.
  6
  
  Dear, but you didn’t mess up anything, TN-S? Maybe TN-C?
  
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#46 Guest Sergey Guests January 6, 2019 7:14 p.m.
2

judging by your scheme, what’s stopping you from taking the ground before the ouzo or the opening contact to the ouzo alone?)))) or I’m not a fool or ski on the asphalt
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1. #47 Guest Alex Guests January 11, 2019 2:09 p.m.
  16
  
  In my inexperience (just starting to work as an electrician), back in 2004, I did just that. And I almost burned my own apartment. This picture is still before my eyes, although so many years have passed ...
  We lived then in the old foundation, built in the 30s (a wooden house, plastered inside). And we had the usual traffic jams (or rather, one, on the "phase"). At that time I had been working as an electrician for a year and a half, I thought that I knew everything and could do it, "I am a jet" and all that. I decided to put “euro sockets” in the kitchen, and at the same time change the plugs to automatic machines, and put an RCD (since we equipped a shower with a flowing water heater at the same time as replacing the wiring in the kitchen (for those who don’t know, in those old houses there are similar “benefits of civilization” there was no spawn, they themselves all "finished")). Well, I put the RCD, machines, divided the lines into the kitchen and into the rooms ... I put the grounding conductor from the "Euro sockets" and the flowing water heater at the input of the RCD, under one terminal with a zero wire from the meter. And "for reliability", I put a twisted pair of wires of 1.5 "square" wires under the same terminal (damn it, it’s ridiculous to myself from the fact that I was writing and then "fussing") and connected it to the other end with ... a heating battery in the kitchen, and even attached a shower tray. I checked with a "control lamp" that the RCD was working (there was enough leakage current), with respect to the battery, the pallet and the "phase", the RCD worked correctly, "everyone was happy, everyone was" laughing "... Exactly until the" thunder struck ": in our area of the city launched a stormy construction, all the old houses went to demolition (including mine after some time), the area began to rebuild, new skyscrapers, everything. And one Saturday night, the builders managed to interrupt the cable that our house supplied from TP. Their foreman ran up with a team of hard workers, they reassured everyone that, they say, now they will throw a temporary hut for the house from the construction site, and on weekdays they will restore everything along with the networkers. They disconnected the damaged cable from the opening cabinet of our house, connected their own, powered it from the construction site ... Yes, but, apparently, they chose the wrong section of their makeshift. Although the house is old, with 8 apartments, the equipment is modern, the load is decent ... At that moment, we were smoking in the kitchen. At first the light came on. For three seconds. Then there was a second drawdown that the lamps were barely burning. After that, they flared up very brightly for a few more seconds and went out, and a terrible crack came from our corridor. We jump out and see how our counter burns with an open flame, but not sickly! And above the counter there is a mezzanine (wooden), around there are dry old wallpapers, next to the right is a freshly painted platband of the front door ... And all this already licks the fire, and a lot of smoke in the whole apartment. Literally in a few seconds ... If we were not at home at that time, an amba would come to the whole house, not just us. They filled everything with water from the kettle and mugs, rushed out into the street, shouted to the builders so that nothing would turn on. Everything is in shock, what the fuck ...!? .. The foreman ran ... Ventilated the apartment from the smoke, go home ...That my wire that went to the heating battery and the shower tray "ground" just melted along its entire length ... I opened a plastic box in a sooty one, where RCDs with automatic devices stood, everything was scorched, but it’s kind of alive. He threw all the “earth” veins from the entrance of the UZO under the supervision of the superintendent who had suspicions that we were stealing electricity (although this was not so, because it was “alike potential equalization made through ..”) ... Builders dragged the cable with veins of a larger cross section and fed the house, without incident. When the shock passed, the recognition of the error came. The trick is that many people forget (including myself at that moment) that in our country the residential sector (and not only) is powered by three phases using a neutral conductor. And if the load in phases is not uniform (and in the residential sector this is always the case), then the current begins to flow in the neutral wire and the voltage jumps (I simply explain this) - the voltage drops on the overloaded phase, on the underloaded phase it jumps (occurs phase imbalance). And if the neutral conductor has poor contact with the neutral, or a weak cross-section, then at good load it burns out to xp ..., which ultimately happened: at first (according to the builders) it burned out zero from them, and after a couple of seconds it burst out of my mind in the apartment, because for all eight apartments, including mine, the "liquid" wire connected to the heating battery and put on the RCD input became the zero wire ... Therefore, comrades, learn from the mistakes of others. They can become (God forbid!) Fatal ...
  Now we have been living in a new building for a long time, I remade the municipal apartment renovation during the resettlement together with an electrician, put a voltage relay (USM) in the apartment panel, which has already saved us from surges. Many are surprised - why do you need UZM in a new building, because all the wiring is modern and new? Error again! I have yes, everything is new. And the house is connected to the TP, built in the 80s. And the entire energy supply system should always be considered in a complex, “from and to”, as a single whole. And if some place of this “whole” is “narrow”, then it is better to play it safe so that later it will not be excruciatingly painful, all the more, as I wrote above, the ultrasound scan has already worked more than once. And in a neighboring new building, while welding in one of the apartments, zero on one of the risers still burned out (I don’t know the exact details) and our Criminal Code had a lot of lawsuits from apartment owners with burnt appliances ...
  
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  1. #48 one Guests January 21, 2019 3:05 p.m.
    1
    
    to skew the phases created by the generator of the power plant, you need to drop the load in the region of 10% of the generated power .. what kind of equipment did you have in your house, is there a hypermarket?
    
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  2. #49 the guest Guests January 25, 2019 3:40 p.m.
    1
    
    I read it, not too lazy. Leo Tolstoy and Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky rest on the sidelines
    
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#50 Guest Vladimir Guests January 6, 2019 19:41
12

It would be better to write if it’s so smart how to distinguish the neutral wire from the ground wire in three core cable, where all the wires have the same color of insulation. These were laid in multi-apartment for electric stoves in the early 80s
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1. #51 Guest Sergey Guests 14 january 2019 00:16
  3
  
  We need to find where the second tail is attached. Or cut off the electricity in the house - the grounding is not broken by the switch, so there will be a small tip on zero, and on the earth - there will be no.
  
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#52 Waik Guests January 6, 2019 7:47 p.m.
5

0.4 kV NETWORK with dead earthed neutral. There is no difference land, zero. Do not mislead people
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1. #53 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019 01:43
  4
  
  There is a difference. Just what is a grounded neutral? Where do zero and earth combine? At the substation or in the switchboard of the ASU, and as it is correctly written in the same ПУЭ chapter 7, re-combining the zero working and zero protective conductor during the distribution of energy is strictly FORBIDDEN !!!
  
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#54 Konstantin Egorov Visitors January 6, 2019 8:50 p.m.
2

Question.
Dacha. Two-wire core to the outlet. The position of zero and phase in the nests are uniquely determined. The third socket of the outlet has been left vacant for now.
A washing machine is installed on the street through a standard plug. It is installed on the street on a concrete shoe. In a booth covered from all sides.
The machine in this state is checked for operability by three sticks. Everything goes as usual.
Further.
Since my friend from childhood, in 2007, died in a similar cottage from electric shock through the pumping station building, there is a natural desire to ground the washing machine.
The yellow-green (grounding) wire of the machine’s plug “rings” with the tester on the housing.
I take a 3.5 m pin from a water pipe, drive it into the ground and attach it to the free (yellow-green) socket contact.
I plug in the plug of the car. Fine.
I turn on the car to prepare. The reaction is normal. All indicators are normal.
I press the Start button on the washing machine.
The power protection plugged into the outlet is knocked out.
The latch for the door latch is broken.
And the most important thing.
Killed the motherboard of the washing machine.
**************************
Question.
What has been done wrong?
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1. #55 Andrei Guests January 6, 2019 11:37 p.m.
  0
  
  forgot about ouzo
  
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2. #56 Potential Guests 7 january 2019 06:17
  5
  
  Between your outlets and the substation there are cables and wires of different sections and meters (can reach 500 meters). They are interconnected in the same way in different ways, by a bolt (in counters, automatic machines, fusible inserts), twists in the wiring and on the branches of the supports. Cables and wires have a specific resistance, the larger the meter, the greater the resistance. Connections - bolts, twists, punctures, have a transition resistance, small, but the more and the worse the connections are made, the greater the resistance. The overall resistance of your network from substation to outlets can be quite decent. Then the zero in your house relative to the zero substation is no longer zero. At the substation, zero is “planted” on the ground, but not in the house. There is a potential between your zero and the earth. Let it be 9-10 volts. The washing machine is always wet from the inside, that's where the control element “lived” on the case
  
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  1. #57 jonpirat Guests January 7, 2019 5:49 p.m.
    2
    
    It seems to be called a "ground loop". The potential difference between the grounding of remote consumers
    
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  2. #58 Anton Guests January 28, 2019 3:30 p.m.
    0
    
    Earth-to-earth - discord.
    Properly hammered into the ground, the pin should indicate 28-40 ohms with a "zero". The working value is 29 ohms. But, 40 ohms is allowed. Usually, one pin will not give such resistance. Three metal pipes are clogged, three meters each. In the form of a triangle, with a side of 1 meter. They are connected among themselves and from them lead "earth". In my case, it turned out 35 ohms. Already once saved our lives, probably when the heating cable for water broke and the phase fell into the water. The Differential Automatic Machine worked clearly. And, until the cable was replaced, the machine stood firmly on its own, not turning on.
    
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3. #59 Guest Valery Guests January 7, 2019 07:53 AM
  11
  
  You already had a leak on the case, it seems that the engine or tenu, and so it is
  
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4. #60 Anatoly Afanasyev Guests January 7, 2019 5:08 p.m.
  4
  
  If you have a two-wire overhead line with a zero and a phase suitable for your cottage, and the “Zero” is as a made zero, grounded either on your pole or at the nearest to you, then you need to connect this yellow-green contact of the outlet to the neutral wire at the entrance to the cottage. But to connect without fail at the entrance, i.e. TO UZO. In other words, the potentials of the neutral wire and the ground wire must be balanced in fact.
  If you still have a bag at your entrance to the cottage, which directly at the entrance (even to the meter and to the RCD) simultaneously breaks both zero and phase, then you must connect your grounding conductor with zero after this bag.
  In other words: the zero wire suitable for your cottage will be PEN, and after this bag you will already have two wires: N and PE.
  
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5. #61 Guest Dmitry Guests January 7, 2019 11:31 p.m.
  4
  
  It makes no sense to carry out grounding in this way ... This is from a misunderstanding in the electrician ... It was optimal to install an RCD ... And most likely the washing machine has outlived its own - some kind of internal jamb ...
  
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6. #62 ivan Guests January 8, 2019 3:04 p.m.
  0
  
  All wrong. No need to ground the machine. The modern machine has 2 degrees of protection.It hit the mass of the Soviet machine, but should not. It is not necessary to ground it.
  
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7. #63 Andrei Guests January 9, 2019 11:05 p.m.
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  Konstantin, apparently, the capacitor was in the leak. Without earth, although it did not jerk the current, it was already in malfunction. As soon as the earth was hung, naturally the current along the path of least resistance is short. I don’t know what brand your washer was, but SOME of them weren’t at all, I saw that MINUS OF THE BOARD was sitting on the mass ... This slightly distorted me ... but I did not want to understand the intricacies of the circuit and the power supply of the boards, and Then I thought that the engineers knew better, but noted the consequences of such a circuit, just as in your case .. The capacitor that stood in the engine circuit as soon as the Start command arrived, a breakdown occurred. They burnt the typewriter, but I think they saved themselves and their relatives, because in the future operation the phase would sooner or later fall on an ungrounded case, and whoever touches the typewriter ... God forbid anyone would.
  
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8. #64 one Guests January 21, 2019 3:08 p.m.
  0
  
  and why in such a situation just do not directly ground the body of the machine? Why come up with schemes whose work must first pass instrumentation tests?
  
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#65 Vasya Guests January 7, 2019 1:46 p.m.
0

The author read the PUE there clearly explain how PEN is divided on the GZSh rail and how re-grounding is performed. Squealed over those who hammer pipes. Re-grounding is carried out by three electrodes 3m long driven in at a distance of 2m and interconnected by a 40x4 strip by welding. As the electrodes, reinforcement with a diameter of 14 mm is used; it is diverted to the GZSh with a steel wire with a diameter of 6 mm; PEN (0) is also fed from the line. With GZSh depart N (0) and PE (earth). For private homes.
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1. #66 Guest Alexander Guests January 8, 2019 2:42 p.m.
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  Somewhere, one pipe is enough, but somewhere 10 is not enough, it depends on the ground, for re-grounding it is necessary to observe no more than 30 ohms.
  
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2. #67 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019 01:50 a.m.
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  Vasya, where did you see the school in private homes? ))) Do not confuse the local grounding and the GZSh bus in the distribution points in the input boards or taken out by a separate bus outside the shield.
  
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#68 Quirky Orc Guests January 7, 2019 2:01 p.m.
1

when phase zero
there is no certainty that this particular wire is “ground”; you should not connect anything to it except a 30 mA residual current device (RCD), which works instantly, unlike the circuit breaker

Try with such knowledge in the state technical supervision on the admission group to pass.
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#69 Maksim Guests January 7, 2019 3:38 p.m.
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In fact, according to the PUE, once if there is no separate earth, and the neutral is grounded, then neutral output is allowed to the ground of the outlet.
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1. #70 Guest Vlad Guests January 9, 2019 01:52 AM
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  It is NOT allowed to re-combine the zero working and zero protective conductor along the distribution of energy. They can NOT be combined on outlets.
  
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#71 jonpirat Guests January 7, 2019 17:45
1

For a long time I want to make grounding in the house. Who knows, tell me you can use screw piles for this? 8 pieces in the foundation. All are welded with a channel. So I think the bolt should be welded to the beam and there will be a ground loop.
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1. #72 ivan Guests January 8, 2019 3:06 p.m.
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  Why earth, what to ground?
  
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2. #73 Guest Vladimir Guests January 11, 2019 11:28 p.m.
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  It seems to read that they do not recommend. Piles are covered with an insulating coating against rust, which at the same time is a good electrical insulator.
  
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3. #74 Guest Alexander Guests January 25, 2019 12:04
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  You can do it.
  
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#75 Guest Alex Guests January 7, 2019 6:41 p.m.
8

The author himself doesn’t know what he is writing about, some kind of non-waterless zero phase (apparently this is zero), some kind of oversimplified concepts, links to the PUE without specifying a point, some tens of volts that appeared due to the high resistance of the zero wire. It is a foolish recommendation to ground zero on the input terminal and not on the main ground bus. But in reality one phase or 3 phases enters the house and a neutral conductor, so you need to “put this zero on the main grounding bus” on the same bus, connect the conductor from the grounding device （three-meter pins driven into the ground）,connect the zero bus separately to the same bus （and connect zeros from sockets） to it. and grounding from sockets should be connected to grounding buses, which should be connected to the same main grounding bus.
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#76 Guest Alexander Guests January 7, 2019 8:31 p.m.
2

I have an electronic meter. The mains voltage was 180 volts. I made a circuit on my site and connected a neutral wire to it. The voltage became 220. I burn an average of 1000 square meters per month. And when I took the readings on the first day, and looked at the counter, my jaw dropped. I burned 2000 sq. I had to pay for the extra 1000 square meters. It turns out that with an electronic meter instead of zero, connect the ground, then the meter turns 2 times faster.
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1. #77 Daniel Guests January 9, 2019 18:01
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  Alexander, you did not specify in what place you planted the zero wire on the ground. If in your home, i.e. after the counter, then it should be so! The casket here just opens. Today's counters take into account current not only in phase, but also in zero. Having planted your bad zero on the ground, you caused a current in the neutral wire and the counter began to count it. You can see by disconnecting all consumers at home. And also you raised the voltage to the nearest neighbors. Now, if you turn off zero to the meter and feed the hut from your zero-land, then the troubles with finances will stop. But to do this today is almost impossible, so it is better to ground zero on the support nearest to you and not pay jambs of electricians from your pocket.
  
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#78 Guest Dmitry Guests January 7, 2019 11:25 p.m.
1

Simply so - Metal in the ground is a grounding device (it can be artificial and natural), a grounding conductor is laid from it to the GZSh bus of the switchgear, the GZSh (PE bus can be adopted) is connected to PE and N (depending on the grounding system, it may not be connected) by buses, from the buses go to electrical equipment zero protective PE and zero working N conductors, in addition, the equipment housings can be additionally connected by conductors of the additional potential equalization system. The result - the electrical equipment housings are zeroed, re-grounding is made on the zero bus PE or PEN of the input device. RCD can work in any grounding system - it must be correctly connected
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#79 Den kol Visitors January 8, 2019 12:38 a.m.
3

Trying to understand, but still I don’t understand anything! What voltage drop ?? The Chinese letter to me is all this ...
(Although he worked as an electrician for several years ...)
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1. #80 YURICH Guests January 8, 2019 9:55 p.m.
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  Already not working? Not necessary if you do not understand.
  
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#81 Uncle Guests January 8, 2019 at 09:09 a.m.
4

I liked the phrase "zero phase". What is this? And how does it differ from "earth zero" or "phase zero" or "zero earth". Maybe before we shake the air, we will learn the materiel? At least PUE.
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1. #82 Just me Guests January 8, 2019 9:35 p.m.
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  In principle, you can only read before this phrase, then you can no longer read.
  
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#83 Edgar Guests January 8, 2019 10:13 AM
4

DO NOT read any nonsense. Read (who needs it) PUE. All!
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#84 Ivan Guests January 8, 2019 2:58 p.m.
1

Zero - this is not grounding - this is the protection of a person from electronic damage. electric current. In a residential, apartment building do grounding and lightning protection. If the house is on stilts, they lower the reinforcement with the pile and then pull it to the roof with a strip or steel bar, grounding the bathtubs in the apartments. Check the grounding according to the PUE. In Russian houses, in sockets there is no grounding. But zero comes from a transformer, which is naturally grounded. And it stretches across the city. 4-wire circuit, comes to an apartment building. In a private house, you can make grounding by digging a few electrodes (2.5 meters) into the ground from a corner and connecting them with a strip - again, you need to check with a PUE-device, there may be few electrodes.
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#85 Guest Alex Guests January 8, 2019 9:39 p.m.
1

The author is a terrible graphomaniac, so many letters, but he did not answer the question in the title - how does grounding differ from zero.
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#86 ua1osm Guests January 9, 2019 12:09 a.m.
1

When installing industrial facilities, we always used a grounded neutral.Consumers were distributed in phases evenly and unequivocally, that is, if you change the bulb while standing on the edge of the bathroom or on a cast-iron radiator, you will not be killed - the lamp base has always been at zero. When installing wiring in apartments, no one abides by this rule, so the phase in the socket or lamp socket can come through a wire of any color - even blue, even brown. Well, at least there is a grounding in the floor guards and switchboards. Once upon a time, when the neutral was only earthed at the substation, often the installer used the meter’s current winding in the neutral wire and sealed it like that. Then, upon detection of this, the owner of the house made a good ground loop at the house, the bus, the spreading resistance was measured with an M416 device, the phase-zero loop resistance was measured with an M417 device, and it was possible to connect a new zero to sockets instead of going to a meter that no longer spun. And no magnets.
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#87 Allen Guests January 9, 2019 12:55 a.m.
4

Lord, here you are arguing here! And how can a blonde be with all this !!! How to live then?
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1. #88 Higgs boson Visitors January 11, 2019 18:01
  2
  
  It’s easier for you)) Before you plug in a device into a wall outlet, squint and everything will be fine))
  
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#89 artful electrician Guests 9 january 2019 04:56
2

Yes, seeing him more than once was an electric shock! Something with thinking. Perhaps the metallization of the brain, copper ...
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1. #90 Higgs boson Guests January 11, 2019 5:48 p.m.
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  It's still better than metallizing the brain with aluminum ...
  
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2. #91 Higgs boson Visitors January 11, 2019 5:53 p.m.
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  Agree, this is still better than the metallization of the brain with aluminum ...
  
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#92 Malik Guests January 9, 2019 11:36 p.m.
1

I always considered the electrician to be an exact science, it was not given to me, although I studied for five and passed physics at the university for five. In the years I was already trying to penetrate, I studied everything again. Mura damn it! I’m hooking the engines, I don’t call an electrician to myself, okay! Don’t put your fingers in the socket, don’t work under the pressure! Go to bed, damn the electricians!
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#93 Vadim guest Guests January 10, 2019 17:01
7

Anecdote to the topic. A woman passes an electrical safety exam. The question arose: “What is step voltage?” The woman thought and answered: “This is the tension between the legs when you hold onto the bare“ end ”.
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#94 Guest Alexander Guests January 10, 2019 5:54 p.m.
2

Well nonsense. They cannot explain in normal language. But I was already a fool rejoiced, I thought at last I would recognize the unknown, namely the difference between zero and ground. All the distribution plates of the USSR were and still have disappeared and, fortunately, I have not heard a single case when someone suffered from zero. Why are you talking nonsense to people. Both grounding and grounding are different ways of protecting a person, with the only difference being that modern differential power devices require a separate ground loop for proper operation. In Europe, for example, certified electricians pull home wiring in three wires, and on the main panel they close zero with grounding on one bolt. So, what am I getting at? Write at least someone without Russian show-offs (as in this article) - what is the difference between ground and zero if you do not use DIFs and similar devices in the house, but only current machines.
Thank!
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#95 Guest Dmitry Guests January 11, 2019 12:46
1

And in Moscow, between the stove and the dishwasher 72B, between the sink and the dishwasher 52B, between the toaster or microwave and the dishwasher 22B. Everything comes from the shield by separate wires connected through an RCD to the same standard connection points: “zero” to the bus, “ground” to the screw from the common house “ground”. A local electrician says that since the RCD does not work, then everything is fine and blames the neighbors for the bugs. What to do?
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1. #96 Higgs boson Visitors January 11, 2019 5:59 p.m.
  2
  
  The desired wiring diagram in the apartment, as well as the type of measuring device and the measurement procedure are of interest - maybe the modes and limits of measurements are incorrect.
  
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  1. #97 Guest Dmitry Guests January 11, 2019 20:53
    1
    
    On the stove is a separate wire in a metal pipe. To the dishwasher, a separate three-wire wire from the guard and to the block of kitchen outlets a separate three-wire wire from the guard. Meryl multimeter in ACV 200 mode (up to 200V).The earth in the shield is bred with a thick striped wire with a screw clamp in plastic. The local electrician did not find any connection errors.
    
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    1. #98 Higgs boson Visitors January 14, 2019 12:34
      1
      
      Then some more questions.
      1. Since you indicated that “incomprehensible” voltages occur between the dishwasher and the rest of the consumers, which consumers of the above are connected to sockets with three-pole plugs and which two-pole plugs? The plate does not count, everything is clear there, three phases come.
      2. Have you taken measurements between the enclosures (ground terminals, if any) of consumers or something else?
      3. Is the sink cast-iron and grounded?
      You can also say that the fact that multimeters have a high-impedance input when measuring voltages can influence, and it can show in some cases interference from the network. If all cases are grounded, three-wire wires with a grounding wire are suitable for consumers, then you can sin on poor-quality contact of the dishwasher plug with a socket, or a poor contact of the grounding wire somewhere along the way from the shield to the dishwasher socket. Now all consumers have noise suppression filters at the power input, in which the midpoint is connected to ground, and if there is an open or unreliable contact in the circuit from the indicated midpoint (actually the dishwasher plug) to the panel, then a potential difference can occur.
      Well, about the "bugs" of the neighbors - "I do not believe" (c) :) This is, IMHO, the fantasies of a local electrician :)
      
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      1. #99 Guest Vladimir Guests January 15, 2019 11:48
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        If there is a 3 phase plate, then in the shield for each apartment there is a 3 phase counter. Accordingly, the load is evenly distributed in phases. Each block of sockets is probably connected to different phases. And if bad contacts in the shield on the "ground" and "zero" then such a picture will be observed.
        
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        #100 Sektor Guests January 18, 2019 11:56 AM
        0
        
        Any electric stove can work both from 380 volts and from 220 volts. It all depends on the connection method.
        
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        #101 Higgs boson Visitors January 22, 2019 10:19 AM
        0
        
        I’ll clarify a little - the load in the form of a plate is evenly distributed over the phases. And everything else - how you will connect. After all, the washing machine is single-phase, so if it works and the rest of the consumers are turned off, there can be no talk about any uniformity in the circuits of your connection. But again, all this is dynamic, and AVERAGE, as a rule, the load distribution is within acceptable limits - there are many apartments, and phase loads are averaged.
        
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#102 Evgeniy Guests January 11, 2019 5:33 p.m.
2

Here I was listening to you, listening and understanding - well, you are all fools! (c) Raikin). Chop yourself 2 rules on your forehead:
1. Zero in electrical installations serves to quickly activate the protection
2. Grounding in electrical installations serves to reduce touch voltage.
All! All the rest follows from this. The author in one of the paragraphs this moment is not very clear, but it sounds.
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1. #103 Guest Alexander Guests January 25, 2019 12:00
  1
  
  Wrong.
  "Zero working" or "neutral" is needed for the electrical installation to work.
  And “grounding”, or correctly say “protective neutral conductor” or PE-conductor, is necessary for the reliable operation of the protection devices and, as you have already said, carrying the potential when touching live parts of the electrical installation is normally not energized (the so-called indirect touch).
  
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#104 Guest alex Guests 12 january 2019 07:10
0

phase zero, remember the anecdote about the grandmother who gave the electricians the wire that they dropped
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#105 Guest Alex Guests January 12, 2019 12:43
2

Historically, fools and roads in Russia. When roads interfere with electricity, it disappears. When fools appear human sacrifices. Zero (grounded, not grounded should not touch us) and the phase is to transfer energy, Protective earth to protect normal people (not the author) from the deadly effect on humans of this energy.
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#106 Guest Michael Guests 12 january 2019 17:40
1

in general, in our homes there is no grounding except if someone does not do it on their own grounding is generally a separate circuit with a resistance m between it and 0 not more than 4 ohms.the fact that in houses with 3 wires they consider grounding is not such under any circumstances, then it is better for someone who wants to use batteries or a gas pipe as ground if anyone so desires it
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#107 Yuri V. Vavilov Guests January 12, 2019 19:43
7

It was very lazy to CAREFULLY read everything - both the article and the comments, but I got confused. Read. Neighing from the heart !!! Listen to this. The car can be a truck or a car. Or a jeep. The car can be red or white. Or maybe green. The machine can be front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive. Or maybe with a full one. A car may have a gasoline engine or a diesel engine. But maybe electric. Or hybrid.

It is not clear - why is it all about cars? That's an example. Like for kids.

Electrical power can be arranged in a "triangle" pattern or in a "star" pattern. According to the use of "zero", the circuits are divided into 1. Impermeable neutral, 2. Effectively grounded neutral, 3. Isolated neutral. According to the scheme of protection against defeat by 1. Grounding, 2. Grounding, 3. RCD, 4. There, even before the hell of any technical solutions.

To explain all this, people have been studying for years. You all ... as if so insulting ... as children. We heard a ringing ... ALL IN A HEAD MIXED - red and diesel, front-wheel drive and a truck. I am amused from the heart. Thank.

You can study all this. Several books with a volume of 600 sheets - and you are in trend !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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1. #108 Vyacheslav Guests 13 january 2019 14:27
  1
  
  This popik talks about household electricity consumption of 220v. Electric power can be arranged according to the "triangle" scheme or according to the "star" scheme this is for 380v, for connecting electric motors.
  
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  1. #109 Guest Igor Guests January 13, 2019 8:53 p.m.
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    Not only, he worked in an office, where there were 2 (two) phases and ground in the outlet.
    
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    1. #110 Sektor Guests January 18, 2019 12:02
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      Earth? Or maybe still ZERO?
      
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    2. #111 walked by ... Guests March 8, 2019 07:41 AM
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      lived in a country where there are two phases in the outlet and without land .....
      
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  2. #112 Yuri V. Vavilov Guests January 13, 2019 10:42 p.m.
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    380 is started up in the house. And already in the apartments zero is mixed with one of the three phases.
    
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2. #113 Guest Alexander Guests January 25, 2019 1:55 p.m.
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  How to distinguish earth from zero, wise guy. No cars, please. How do you distinguish between earth and zero at home?
  
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#114 Guest Victor Guests January 14, 2019 03:00 a.m.
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The author of the article is Dunno PUE. In the apartment wiring there is no "ground", but there is PE - protective conductor.
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#115 Zero Wire Guests January 14, 2019 10:11 AM
0

One phase per person should suffice. And let him seek the earth himself.
I'll think about it ... and then I'll write more ...
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#116 Egor Guests January 14, 2019 3:34 p.m.
3

electricity for dummies. for convenience, we take the star scheme. generator star center, we call ZERO. but there is not zero. For example, voltage is the potential difference. those. on a phase wire there can be 280 Volts and at zero 100 volts the difference will get an operating voltage of 180 volts. quite functional for appliances. but if you get to zero with 100 volts and touch the ground then you can kill some. therefore use ground zero. on the generator, transformer + this gives the manufacturer a large potential difference. it is needed to compensate for the loss of resistance in the wires, i.e. initially at the output of the transformer it can be 280 volts but due to the resistance on the wires it drops to 220, for example. So a grounded null wire also loses its properties due to the length of the wire, pickups, etc. therefore, the house should have its own ground loop, which is usually called the earth. those. for the layman, EARTH is a grounded circuit and the better it is, the less the potential difference between the grounded circuit and the earth itself. therefore, they say that one pipe will not be enough especially in dry soils. ZERO is the center of the transformer generator. but it is also grounded. it’s only very far from you and there can be voltage in it, for example, lightning pickups, etc. and the resistance of the wires does not allow these pickups to quickly go into the grounded circuit.
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#117 Guest Victor Guests January 16, 2019 11:08 p.m.
1

In a 0.4kV.system with a dullly grounded neutral, the consumer in the apartment, house, has only "phase" (L), "zero working" (N) and "zero protective" (PE) conductors. There is a PEN conductor that combines the functions of a worker and protective conductors. Grounding is carried out at the power source (this is usually TP), repeated grounding of the neutral wire is performed on the OHL supports, at the inputs to the buildings (3 phases). For the consumer, repeated grounding at the input serves as a protective role against overvoltage in the network (for example, "thunderstorm" , with air entry), a protective measure against the defeat of a person grounding at the input is not current.
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#118 Guest Vladimir Guests January 17, 2019 12:38 a.m.
1

It would be better to write a link to a textbook on electrical engineering, approved by the Ministry of Education, page of the year, authors, it would be easier to find out where the grounding, where the grounding
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#119 Doc Guests January 17, 2019 19:27
0

The general conclusion is this: only a serviceable and high-quality RCD can guarantee your safety when using electrical appliances. The use of even an earthen conductor mounted in accordance with all the rules does not give a 100% guarantee, and in some cases it can itself become a source of big problems.
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1. #120 Guest Dmitry Guests January 24, 2019 4:41 p.m.
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  And the RCD may not save if it was put by a wise guy who does not understand the difference between earth and zero.
  
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#121 Guest Valery Guests January 17, 2019 19:55
0

Yes, they wrote such a horror. You have absolutely no idea about grounding, grounding, about PEN, PE, N conductors. Learn the theory.
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#122 Sektor Guests 18 january 2019 09:39
1

Lord All houses built before the mid-zero years do not have any grounding. This is if with gas stoves. In houses with electric stoves, ONLY ELECTRIC HOB are earthed and nothing else. Sockets can supposedly stand with grounding, but removing the cover you will see there are only TWO wires. Phase and Zero.
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#123 Obukhov Alexey Petrovich Guests January 18, 2019 11:19
0

There is zero and grounding and do not spin your head
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1. #124 Guest Dmitry Guests January 24, 2019 16:50
  1
  
  This in theory is both. But in fact in the old apartment buildings there is only zero, and there is no land and is not expected to be any land except for the cold water stand.
  
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#125 Rinat Guests January 20, 2019 01:01
0

What did the author want to write about?
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#126 Konstantin Guests January 21, 2019 06:15
1

"... the case of a refrigerator, microwave or other household appliances will be energized. This is because an electric current flows through a zero wire with a corresponding voltage drop, the value of which can be determined by multiplying the current strength by the indicator of the resistance of the conductor in the gap between the measured place and genuine grounding point. " - Write nonsense, comrades. The cross section of the wires is always chosen so that the drop on them is negligible, otherwise a fire is ensured! If you do not believe it, measure the voltage between the neutral and ground wires. And the true reason that the case of the appliance may be energized is the possibility of accidentally breaking the neutral wire. In this case, the "phase" appears through the internal circuits of the appliance instead of grounding on the housing.
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#127 Just me Guests January 21, 2019 08:31
0

Read less such a nonsense. You will be more alive. There’s nothing to even comment on.
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#128 Evgeniy Guests January 22, 2019 05:54
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Aftor burns. :) Study topics: Grounding, what for what? Re-grounding, what for? Protective grounding, what for? and then you will understand how they differ .... do not expect someone to take and tell you in five lines ...
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#129 Kenkeg Guests January 23, 2019 9:09 p.m.
0

Nafig it needs to be fooled with mythical grounding, no one has ever had it, and if it was a uniform fiction
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1. #130 vowa Guests February 4, 2019 12:46 a.m.
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  When working with switching power supplies, sometimes about 50 volts appeared on the case if there was no ground in the outlet (3rd wire)
  
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#131 George Guests January 25, 2019 11:30 a.m.
0

Electricians and plumbers are fun guys. They consider themselves only as specialists.
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